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 cjjeepercreeper
Commodore
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Member#: 2665
Posts: 6146
Location: At the Mountains of Madness
   
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 Posted:
Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: All this stuff about Satan |
 
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Ok, for as long as I've been listening to metal (nearly 40 years) there have been references to Satan. The references have very much increased the past 15-20 years, especially from the European bands. And I see a lot of "Hail Satan" and that sort of talk here. But, what I want to know, who here is REALLY a Satanist, I'll bet 99% of the folks saying this stuff are just saying it, mostly for the shock value or to look cool to the other metalheads. Personally, I believe in good and evil, I believe in God but not quite sure who is behind all the evil that is around.
Who's the REAL Satanists, and who are just all talk? In the same vein, lots of Paganism talk, but that is also VERY popular in metal. Who is REALLY a Pagan, or who is just trying to impress the other metalheads?
So come on, discuss this, its a nice break from the NSBM crap.   |
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 Dami
Commodore
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Member#: 87
Posts: 2567
Location: Stalag 13
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Posted:
Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Very good topic, yet requires a lot of writing and/or talking. Foremost there are different opinions/attitudes on satanism. The church invented this satanism, that some people call "original satanism", drinking blood, riding on brooms, conventing with witches, drinking ze blood of unborn children, inverted crosses, etc. You can find things (symbols) like inverted crosses also in modern satanism through the "teachings" of Crowley (1875-1947) or LaVey (1930-1997), but mostly it is there to show the disgust towards the christian (but mostly abrahamistic) religion(s), so also there is decline towards islam and jewish religion. Calling those people nazis - which is all too common - is wrong because they don't dislike jewish people because of their race or origin, but their "faith".
To distinguish these aforementioned forms is kind of elementary work, but how do you distinguish the supporters of these forms? Hard question, mostly only talking gives you the correct answer.
I know some satanists (only of the LaVey-an Form) and Ex-satanists, all very intelligent people but hating christianity to the core (well, that is my take too).
Well, those were my first words, I think we will have some really long exchange going on in this topic, so I'd like to stop here and wait for the opinions and explanations of others.
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 misanthrone
Commodore
Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Member#: 1992
Posts: 4046
Location: BC, Canada
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Posted:
Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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oh fuck, this is a good topic.. Dami made a good point.. 
when i was younger (highschool) I considered myself a satanist, because it was cool.. and so do lots of teen (especially) black metal fans..
I see satanism as a rebellion against christianity, not as obedience to a god named Satan.. and I don't like those satanic blood rituals.. satanism is something individual.. for me, it's just hatred towards christianity (especially) and religion (generally speaking).. and it was called satanism by the fuckin' church, U could name it as U like..
fuck, my english is too poor now and I'm tired, but I'll be back with a more "intelligent" definition..
*where are those days of burning churches?*
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None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe
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cjjeepercreeper
Commodore
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Member#: 2665
Posts: 6146
Location: At the Mountains of Madness
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Posted:
Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Turns out that many of the church burnings were not so much "Satanism" as they were ANTI-Christian. Some, such as Varg, claimed to be anti-Christian because they were allegedly Pagan. But what you said Misa is EXACTLY what I was getting at, how many self avowed Satanists are just anti-Christian or just "fad Satanists"? That is true especially for the younger crowd, hell, I dabbled in it nearly 40 years ago because it was "cool".
Personally, I've never met a real Satanist in person. Sure, met lots of "Satanists", they thought it was cool, but when it comes down to it they are just anti-Christians, we don't even really have much in the way of Pagans over here. |
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Dami
Commodore
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Member#: 87
Posts: 2567
Location: Stalag 13
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Posted:
Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Those "cool" and "trendy" appearances may be a lower-level of becoming somethign "real", but mostly these are people you really can laugh at... I mean they claim to be something they CAN never be  .
Decided to let you know something about my experiecenes with "Pagans", "Odinists" and such.
There are also different approaches to "heathenism" (the church called everything heathenism which was not christian). Some people see "natural forces" as kind of a metaphor for the gods; that is the idea I also follow a bit. Then there are others, that really believe in the asagods as true and existent gods. If they want to belive in that it is okay with me (the germanic or early celtic faith is "better" (or fairer) than most other religions), but I won't believe in it because no "higher entity" seems credible enough for me, even if the Asagods seem (and are according to the Edda) more "human".
Ah well, forgot what I wanted to write now... fuck, maybe next time. Don't want to exert everyone on here 
Edit:
Oh yeah, about the "god satan"-thingie, there are many satanists that also reject the idea of a higher being like "satan". I think Ghaal of Gorgoroth also said that satanism is very indiviudal and also "proclaiming" the higher idea of individualism, not to worship some "dark god".
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 Pesadelo 
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Member#: 3090
Posts: 1955
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Posted:
Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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First a answer to CJ very question: I'm not a satanist; perhaps a pagan, since i'm an atheist. I just like some art products derived from this idea.
Now, some digression (I love do it  ):
Hope and fear; God and Satan; Heaven and Hell; Yin and Yang; Good and evil. Dualities. One could not survive without the other simply 'cause the first one (hope&fear) are basic sensations (i will not use emotions here, 'cause they are too much "rational").
As an atheist, i know that God and Satan are abstract concepts. Most people need them as an anchor. And the more hilarious about that is: they become real, since people believe them and act according those beliefs. So, the problem of the true satanist is not to believe that there is a "Satan", but to act as a satanist.
Satan is a meme, on the "Dawkinian" meaning, and is a strong one. So, our small world (each time smaller) spreads memes at a rate never seem before. Strong memes are favored by an easy communication channel. Other strong memes are favored too.
I believe that there are very few true satanists, also as there are very few true christians.
Satanism is a product, as is Rock'n'Roll, Coca-Cola and Ecological Awareness. Most of time, we are simply buying these products, having nothing to do with them or knowing nothing about how to do them.
You guys, like me (hey Cheru where are you?), are hungry readers and we love a good fictional novel or a detailed war scenario. The human history and stories are construct mainly over distress, death, struggle. How would we have those amazing pieces of culture without the dualities?
So, to conclude, as would utter a borg: "resistance to Satan is futile; you will be assimilated". If we have to think "Satan" or "war" or "Hell" to do good art, ok. But, if these are to do the evil (including manipulate others), we human kind must grow up! And we know that there are people that take fantasies too serious...
(I hope my satanic english had been understandable) |
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Daniem
Commander
Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Member#: 2982
Posts: 546
Location: Curitiba, Brasil
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Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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As an atheist, I agree with Pesa when he said Satan and God are abstract concepts. Just meaningless concepts, by the way; something that some people need to believe as a "spiritual security". But it doesn't works for me.
In my case, I don't need a Spiritual support; I like the "freedom of believes", if I can put in this way. Maybe that's why i respect the different pagan religions.
On the other hand, we know that Satanism has lots of meanings and distorcions too. The common sense always related Satanism as the worst think in the world, the evil, the bad. This is the Satanism created by the christian church, the"product", like Pesa said. But if we search a little more, we can find that its real meaning is opposition to religion or submission to any gods. And I couldn't find 'till now anyone that is self-proclaimed Satanist in this way.
Nice topic, btw. |
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 kanibaal
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Member#: 973
Posts: 307
Location: netherlands
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Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: |
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i fuckin dispise religions so no i dont believe in god/ satan and the rest of that crap. i think that those religious fuckers just wanted a thing they could blame for thier "bad" behavior. its a shame my english isnt that good otherwise i could explain better what i mean :s
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You could easily be replaced by a red-ass baboon, and no one would notice the difference.
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 Dark
Commodore
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Member#: 589
Posts: 3246
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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My turn now... I would have to say now a days aboutn 80% of the younger population would be classified as "fad-stanists" I would imagine one who is a true satanist wouldnt admit it openly unless brought upon by it, yet these Fad-stanists are extrermly open about it and mostly use it for shock value.
Im not a religeion person, satanist pagan or any of the like. I dont belive in a personal jesus or a lucifer for own personaly gain or belifs or happy ness. I just simple belive in on organised spirit in charge of the fabric of space and time and the order of the universe.
To basically blurt out and make it look somthing good ie "Look at me im a satanist" is somthing that bring attantion to it along with all of the bad thing go with it. Meaning a group a of ppl notice and realise "Ohhh what happening to our children, they are all falling to the demon satan" then just proceed to drag out all of the fabircated bull that the church has used to intimidate children and ppl alike for the last 200 years. So Pretty much any religeion that isnt christianity will usually have some shock value. And bull dragged with it... Which is why i chose to belive what i belive in, very simple answer to a loaded question "So what do u belive in?" |
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Pesadelo
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Member#: 3090
Posts: 1955
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Hey, CJ, this becames a phylosophical topic 
You all are fucking cool heads!  |
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 Waffen
Captain
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Member#: 2503
Posts: 1421
Location: England & Thailand
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Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I got into trouble as a young man burning bibles etc and pretending to be a satanist but looking back now I realise that I only did it to rebel against authority. As mentioned before spiritual shit is personal and everyone has their reasons for their beliefs.
After my 'dabbling' with all that stuff I concluded that its all bullshit to me. Its fine for people to have religion or some spiritual belief, I don't hate them for it. Some people need it to get them through and that's fine as long as they don't try to push it on me.
As for Satanism, I think it is just labelled with all the other spiritual/religious groups and to me it is irrelevant. I agree with Glen Benton who said (and I quote) 'Its all about the metal'.
Kids don't realise this coz they get caught up in the 'romance' of being 'evil' and shit.
But for me I'm just a man and I believe in myself and my family. Personally I dont need anything else.
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Its a trick.......get an axe! |
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Dark
Commodore
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Member#: 589
Posts: 3246
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Steven Tyler said it best... I belive in the 3 M's:
Money
Music
And Mmmmmmmm pussy.  |
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Dami
Commodore
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Member#: 87
Posts: 2567
Location: Stalag 13
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Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Dark"]My turn now... I would have to say now a days aboutn 80% of the younger population would be classified as "fad-stanists" I would imagine one who is a true satanist wouldnt admit it openly unless brought upon by it, yet these Fad-stanists are extrermly open about it and mostly use it for shock value.[/quote]
But if someone says he is a satanist - that doesn't really shock anymore. Maybe because a "satanist image" became popular... Although some of them who claim to be satanists may be "real" satanists, but those with pride won't make a "hype" out of it (ummm... nobody mentioned Dimmu Borgir in here ?).
At last this is what I experienced.
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This is Schäuble. Copy Schäuble into your signature to help him on his way to Überwachungsstaat. |
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 lunarstrain88
Captain
Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Member#: 9680
Posts: 2403
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
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Posted:
Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cjjeepercreeper wrote: |
Turns out that many of the church burnings were not so much "Satanism" as they were ANTI-Christian. Some, such as Varg, claimed to be anti-Christian because they were allegedly Pagan. But what you said Misa is EXACTLY what I was getting at, how many self avowed Satanists are just anti-Christian or just "fad Satanists"? That is true especially for the younger crowd, hell, I dabbled in it nearly 40 years ago because it was "cool".
Personally, I've never met a real Satanist in person. Sure, met lots of "Satanists", they thought it was cool, but when it comes down to it they are just anti-Christians, we don't even really have much in the way of Pagans over here. |
I would say that this guy is the Satanist of our times
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 diginferno
Rear Admiral (Ambassador)
Joined: Apr 11, 2006
Member#: 1771
Posts: 3182
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Posted:
Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lunarstrain88 wrote: |
I would say that this guy is the Satanist of our times
*images*
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What did Satanists ever do to you? You're actually insulting them.
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