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diginferno
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:04 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


slothhead wrote:
digi is winamp staying or r u removing it?


I'm not sure I understand your question. Winamp is a player, not a streaming format. We can't remove it even if we want to. If you are talking about Winamp playlist file formats, then there are no plans to remove those.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:06 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


ok yes i was on about dfm format ty digi
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:31 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Is there any chance to get playlist-information of the wma-Stream in Winamp? I don't like wma, but quality is better than the 64k aac-Stream...

Another question...would it be an idea to provide password-protected streams in higher quality to RIP-members and/or donators?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:24 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Quote:
Another question...would it be an idea to provide password-protected streams in higher quality to RIP-members and/or donators?


That was a nice idea!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:22 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


diginferno wrote:
slothhead wrote:
digi is winamp staying or r u removing it?


I'm not sure I understand your question. Winamp is a player, not a streaming format. We can't remove it even if we want to. If you are talking about Winamp playlist file formats, then there are no plans to remove those.


im sure digi is removing the internet LOL
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:19 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I can listen radio only through a proxy, but aac, wma, real-media aren't work.
Only OGG stream worked.
Sad
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:39 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Open letter to the death.fm crew by a concerned user of your site:

Hi,

I just noticed today that you removed the ogg vorbis stream and feel quite sad about that. I was neither a regular listener nor did I donate a lot of money lately but I followed the development of death.fm closely as it is one of the few internet radios left which plays good music _and_ supported ogg vorbis. I think the position of vorbis is an unique one of all media formats as it is widely supported by media players and completely patent free. This may not sound important, but in the long run patented algorithms hamper the improvement of software and decreases the diversity of media formats, removing the choice from the customer, even for the media player itself. As an example, my mobile player doesn't support AAC(Plus) and WMA, although it isn't that old.

I recognize your problem, that ogg vorbis sound quality to compression ratio isn't that good as that of AAC Plus and maybe WMA (I disagree there). This causes greater costs in bandwidth per user on your site. I won't reason with monetary arguments, because I don't have the hard numbers I'd need for that (how much users do you have, what license fees do you pay, what do you pay for bandwidth/traffic etc), and even if free audio formats are more expensive I'm sure in the long run we all pay more if we don't strengthen them now. As a web radio you are in a difficult position too like the free software movement, as you are under constant pressure by the content industry, like the legislation attempts to increase the costs per user beyond any profitability. It'd be a wise move to decrease the dependency on that industry be at least providing the choice what software and which codec your listeners use. Lastly you'll lose some of your listeners because of technical and ideological reasons. Sad

As my time is limited I can't write down all important arguments against proprietary formats and why it is essential to provide at least an alternative, but if your interested in that discussion I can recommend the sites of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. http://www.eff.org

I hope my letter wasn't to confusing, and I strongly hope you will reconsider your choice to remove the ogg vorbis stream. Smile

Bubelgum (still registered here with my old and stupid nickname) :p
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:27 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Bubelgum wrote:
Open letter to the death.fm crew by a concerned user of your site:

Hi,

I just noticed today that you removed the ogg vorbis stream and feel quite sad about that. I was neither a regular listener nor did I donate a lot of money lately but I followed the development of death.fm closely as it is one of the few internet radios left which plays good music _and_ supported ogg vorbis. I think the position of vorbis is an unique one of all media formats as it is widely supported by media players and completely patent free. This may not sound important, but in the long run patented algorithms hamper the improvement of software and decreases the diversity of media formats, removing the choice from the customer, even for the media player itself. As an example, my mobile player doesn't support AAC(Plus) and WMA, although it isn't that old.

I recognize your problem, that ogg vorbis sound quality to compression ratio isn't that good as that of AAC Plus and maybe WMA (I disagree there). This causes greater costs in bandwidth per user on your site. I won't reason with monetary arguments, because I don't have the hard numbers I'd need for that (how much users do you have, what license fees do you pay, what do you pay for bandwidth/traffic etc), and even if free audio formats are more expensive I'm sure in the long run we all pay more if we don't strengthen them now. As a web radio you are in a difficult position too like the free software movement, as you are under constant pressure by the content industry, like the legislation attempts to increase the costs per user beyond any profitability. It'd be a wise move to decrease the dependency on that industry be at least providing the choice what software and which codec your listeners use. Lastly you'll lose some of your listeners because of technical and ideological reasons. Sad

As my time is limited I can't write down all important arguments against proprietary formats and why it is essential to provide at least an alternative, but if your interested in that discussion I can recommend the sites of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. http://www.eff.org

I hope my letter wasn't to confusing, and I strongly hope you will reconsider your choice to remove the ogg vorbis stream. Smile

Bubelgum (still registered here with my old and stupid nickname) :p


You speak right out of my dead grinding soul.

*looks innocent* looks like the amount of people having problem with the changes is increasing... how unexpected. (find sarcasm to gain a cookie)
diginferno
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:54 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


JERIC wrote:

I need to upgrade the encoders and server and will be using the other stations for testing this. When you listen to Ogg do you ever notice that it exceed way more than 128kbps? Sometimes over 200k? This is very unfortunate for the low bandwidth users trying to hear the 32k when there is all this excess overhead which costs us money.

If I can fix these issues and continue to have problems with the new stream server, than the Oggs will be sticking around for a while longer.

Thanks for providing your feedback but please have some patience.


So, maybe I am not the only one who notices that not the OGG file format seems to be the problem, but the encoder. Years ago I also used to connect to the OGG streams and I loved it. Well, some players work better with it than others, but depends on how good the format plug-in is. I switched to aacPlus a long time ago and *poof!* all the buffering issues were gone.

I also advocate open formats and open software because I never enjoyed being a slave. Let's just give it some time and see how things work out.

Until then, I can pass some useful information from a fellow mod from another of our stations:

j2brown wrote:

I use mplayer (command line) under linux to listen to the AAC streams. You might pass that along. I just checked and I can play it with Audacious as well.

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/

http://audacious-media-player.org/


I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:08 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Why would you need to run VLC under Wine when it is available for GNU/Linux? I have Ubuntu and all the players that come with it play the aacPlus streams.

Digi took the words out of my keyboard. I also prefer to go open format too but the Ogg has still has issues that need to be rectified. I don't see what the problem is with "proprietary" formats anyway. What is wrong with a company making an excellent product then wanting to reap the financial rewards from it? It's not like aacPlus only plays on one player. In fact it is difficult to find a player that does not support it now.

I am going to do a study for stream quality and might consider bumping the 64k aacPlus up or adding 128k aacPlus.

Ogg is still available but underground for now but I highly encourage everyone to convert to aacPlus.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:48 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


JERIC wrote:
Why would you need to run VLC under Wine when it is available for GNU/Linux? I have Ubuntu and all the players that come with it play the aacPlus streams.


I can only speak for myself, but I can't get a new VLC running in my environment. It's managed by the IT-department, and the vlc comming with it is ancient and won't play aac(nor do the other players that come with it... most don't play mp3 as well). I've tried the feasible ways around it (I know my linux stuff), and the only way really is to run the windows binary via wine (the wine installed here is ancient too, but can apparently run a recent vlc).

Just to clarify, since you asked Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:08 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


@Pyr: most open source applications that compile into native executables are still compatible with Windows 2000. I guess that's why the new Win32 VLC will run under your old Wine Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:56 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Quote:
Hello Wurst,

Look here jerk off, you let your membership run out. Stop being a pussy and renew today.

You can follow this link:
http://death.fm/modules.php?name=VIP_Subscribe

Stay Brutal. \m/

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I don't know if this is a personalized message becuase of my latest complaints about the changes here, but if it is, my oppinion still is "fuck it"
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:40 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Wurst wrote:
Quote:
Hello Wurst,

Look here jerk off, you let your membership run out. Stop being a pussy and renew today.

You can follow this link:
http://death.fm/modules.php?name=VIP_Subscribe

Stay Brutal. \m/

Death.FM Team
death.fm


I don't know if this is a personalized message becuase of my latest complaints about the changes here, but if it is, my oppinion still is "fuck it"
LOL LOL LOL
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:31 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Everyone should get up to speed. No since in trying to here high quality sound on low quality equipment. If you don't get it you don't get it! Mr. Green Mr. Green Evil or Very Mad
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